(USA 1984 83m) DVD1/2
This goes up to eleven
p Karen Murphy d Rob Reiner w/m/ly Christopher Guest, Rob Reiner, Michael McKean, Harry Shearer ph Peter Smokler ed Robert Leighton art Dryan Jones
Christopher Guest (Nigel Tufnel), Michael McKean (David St Hubbins), Harry Shearer (Derek Smalls), Rob Reiner (Marty DiBergi), R.J.Parnell (Mick Shrimpton), David Kaff (Viv Savage), Tony Hendra (Ian Faith), Bruno Kirby (Tommy Pischeda), Fran Drescher (Bobbi Flekman), Anjelica Huston, Ed Begley Jnr, Billy Crystal, Patrick MacNee,
Rob Reiner’s spoof rockumentary of an ageing British rock band on tour in the US at the twilight of their careers truly was one of the most original films of its decade. Here was a film that finally, deservedly attacked and made fun of that most pretentious of musical art forms, the heavy metal rock band, in this case the fictitious Spinal Tap, one of England’s loudest bands behind such ‘classic’ albums as Intravenus de Milo, Shark Sandwich and The Gospel According to Spinal Tap, the latter prompting one reviewer to say that if God rested on one day why did he not rest the day he made Spinal Tap? Thank God he didn’t, because the world would be a far less funny place without them.
Spinal Tap, a British rock group founded in the mid sixties, consists of three core members, guitarist and singer David St Hubbins, lead guitarist Nigel Tufnel and bass guitarist Derek Smalls. They are legends in their own imagination, feted through the known world for such songs as ‘Hell Hole’ and ‘Big Bottom’. Commercial director Marty DiBergi – who on first hearing them was “knocked out by their exuberance, their raw power and their punctuality” – records the behind the scenes happenings and gigs and interviews the band members as they embark on their first US tour in six years.
There are scenes here that will stay with you for life; the group emerging from pods only for Derek’s pod to not open until the song is over; the hilarious Stonehenge number when an eighteen inch model is created rather than an eighteen foot model and leprechauns dance round it; the hilarious first glimpses of the ‘Smell the Glove’ album, released in a blank black cover; the promotional signing where no-one turns up; the descriptions of how the Spinal Tap drummers met their ends – one in an unclassified gardening accident, one choking on someone else’s vomit, and another spontaneously combusting on stage; the band failing to find their way from their dressing room to the stage; Derek being stopped and searched with a cucumber down his pants; and of course the truly awful song renditions. These are men of talentless myth, tragic in their truly side-splitting and infantile pretension to art. Nigel says he’s a follower of Bach and Mozart and calls his tuneless twaddle “Mach”, David compares the end of the band to the end of the universe, Derek says he’d work with children if not in rock. As David says, “it’s such a fine line between stupid and clever” and that sums up the whole shebang. Yet to say that Tap only has digs at the ageing rockers past their sell-by date is missing part of the point. It also attacks the hangers on and cult followers of such bands and shows that they are partly responsible. After all, Tap’s one-time popularity isn’t down to them but those who bought the records and the most pretentious and vacant lines in the film are delivered by some of the interviewed fans in the opening montage.
Tap’s success as a film is down to many factors, but the performances of McKean, Guest and Shearer as the core members are so spot-on as to be uncanny, especially considering their not being British (Guest in particular is a joy as the incredibly dim Nigel, with his extra power amplifiers and bone structure T-shirts). Yet equally important are their musical contributions as the truly trite and sexist lyrics are uncannily reminiscent of so many bands of their ilk. Even the cameos are spot-on, with Fran Drescher a delight and Patrick MacNee (was his appearance in Oasis’ ‘Don’t Look Back in Anger’ video a homage?) and Anjelica Huston popping up, too. It also gets one of the best DVD treatments, including a commentary from the actors in character. Altogether now, “black, lovely colour.”
Hm. I get why people like this movie. I might even say it’s influential in establishing the mockumentary comedy as a viable genre. But it’s pretty much useless for me. Also, is heavy-metal really the most pretentious of musical art forms? I’d have thought you’d have to be taken seriously by other people to really be qualified as pretentious, no matter how seriously you take yourself. Granted, opera’s a dead-horse nowadays, but after that I’d say that Broadway (or West End for you, Fish) deserves to be taken down a peg long before the likes that Spinal Tap represents. Hell, even the hypocritical folk-singers of “A Mighty Wind” were more deserving targets.
Still, I suppose it’s funny if you get heavy-metal humor (I don’t), and it is probably Rob Reiner’s most… um… decent-ish movie (well, apart from the ones that Aaron Sorkin wrote, but that’s only because I’m a sucker for his blend of walk-and-talk Americana). It’s a good thing you said that these selections weren’t actually supposed to be numbered, in the long run, because if I was still taking that seriously, I’d be even more perplexed by this choice than I am now.
I mean… Just… Hell, man. Ah, hell…
Heavy Metal is indeed a serious form.
Sure these guys are mocking the joke stuff (Judas, Dio, Led Zep, late Black sabbath ect)… but there is a vein of heavy metal that is indeed serious and very artistic. Mainstream I’m thinking bands like NIN, Tool, ect. A little off that you have Sepultura, Neurosis, Skinny Puppy, LARD, Ministry, Dillinger Escape Plan, Mike Patton (Tomahawk, Fantomas, Faith No More, ect). The list could go on and on.
Yes, heavy Metal can be serious, what this film is mocking isn’t that. still a hoot though!
Yeah, it’s more targetting pop-music in general, and at the time the movie was made, Metal was just the easiest contemporary one to lampoon. The only part of the film I’ve ever found remotely funny was in the band’s early Beatles period, with “Give Me Some Money”– a decent, clueless parody of the Beatles at their most decent and clueless themselves (that’s not a dig against the Fab Four– we can all agree that they did better things prior to the likes of “Rubber Soul” and “Revolver”, eh?). Of course, the only reason I can appreciate that brief section is because I actually like the music of that period enough to identify with comedy about it.
Ok, so this was the big secret that Allan thinks will start off a vitriol of comments? He might be right considering what I’m about to say. In my personal opinion I think this film is the worst and most boring type of garbage. Its tedious and dated and I’ve always felt the praise it gets was unwarranted. The film moves in ways I feel are synonymous with trying too hard to be clever and failing. I didn’t find a damn thing in this film funny and most of the performances are awful. Rob Reiner, like his ex-wife, are not directors and this film is the first major indicator of the crap this hack was about to unleash on us for twenty-plus years. A waste of time. In my opinion, utter GAR-BAGE! Ok, people, go on, fry me.
I bought this title on CRITERION DVD when it came out to add to my collection. I NEVER WATCHED. Nope, NOT ONCE. After a while I started using the DVD as a coaster for my coffee table. I think a guest spilled beer on it one night. I wasn’t pissed at all. I just tossed it in the trash barrel and replaced it under my friends beer can with a paper towel.
Another fantastic treasure that proves the 80s weren’t a useless decade for film. A priceless satire on aging rockers from their stereotypical hair metal to the incredibly vulgar lyrics, and of couse the magnificently done music videos involving parodies of early 60 s British Invasion Pop (reminiscent to the Beatles) to late 60s Psychedelic flower power acid rock. Great performances from McKean and Guest, and also a very overlooked performance from the great Harry Shear. Its sad the three don’t get the credit they deserve; They were totally convincing and just hilarious, but alas comedic performances almost never get the respect they deserve. Another unforgettable little performance comes from Bruno Kirby who totally steals his scene as the limo driver. A film I consider being one the best comedies of all time and one I’m disappointed not to see a little bit higher.
WHEN HARRY MET SALLY. A Woody Allen wannabe with none of the spark. MISERY, a film whose title reflected what I was in while viewing it. STAND BY ME, a waste of 7 dollars and two hours of my time. THE BUCKET LIST-dont get me started. A FEW GOOD MEN-only a few good minutes whenever Jack Nicholson shows up (a superior actor wasted). THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT-no wonder this country has delusions of grandeur. Shall I go on? Rob Reiner’s only claim to fame, in my book was his terrific week-by-week performances on ALL IN THE FAMILY. He should have stopped while he was ahead. Seems his nick-name on the show, MEATHEAD, still applies. And let’s not even mention NORTH!?!?
Actually, with the exceptions of “North” and “The Bucket List”, I’d say all those movies are much better than “Spinal Tap”. I particularly like the Sorkin-scripted films– they’re absolute shmaltz, of course, total and utter American liberal masturbation, but if the conservatives can have “Red Dawn”, then I can have those two pictures. Granted, Sorkin did this whole bullshit much better on “The West Wing”, a show that had more justification to exist as a piece of left-wing wish fulfilment during the dark times of the Bush years, but still.
You also forgot “The Princess Bride”. A stupid, stupid movie, but a decently charming knock-off of fairy-tales and swashbucklers. William Goldman’s book is better, so I hear tell, but I the movie’s good enough for me. It’s also got the best dinner-table conversation with Wallace Shawn this side of “My Dinner With Andre”.
By the way, is that one still a possibility, or was it one of Fish’s nearlies?
‘My Dinner with Andre’ was 6 on my 80′s list. One of my absolutely favorite films. I can watch it anytime.
Jamie, I am assuming you have the Criterion DVD of MY DINNER WITH ANDRE which just released, right?
Oh yeah I bought it when it first came out. I had a digital file of the film (like a decent .avi) and a dubbed VHS from tv. I was more then happy to put both into retirement. I also have the script in it’s published form as well.
Excellent. I picked it up during the Criterion 50% off sale at Barnes & Noble, but I also bought Tarkovsky’s SOLARIS, which I forgot I already owned! Ha!
Some actors learn the art of directing film while on set and studying the craft from the directors they work with. REDFORD studied people like Pollack, Roy Hill, Pakula. Warren Beatty studied under Arthur Penn, Elia Kazan, Mike Nichols and Robert Altman. Jesus, look at Easwood, with a master like Sergio Leone. Sean Penn had guys like Woody Allen, David Fincher, Harold Becker, Tim Robbins, and Eastwood himself. Reiner was obviously sleeping all those years watching his father or working with Norman Lear. The proof is there. His films are nothing more than bad the stuff rejected television pilots are made of. If I were an exec, I’d have canned EVERYTHING this guy slid across the review table. I gotta go take an anti-acid pill now.
Hm. I don’t care for Redford’s movies at all. Beatty– he’s actually pretty good at times (I especially admire how fucking crazy “Dick Tracy” is) but I wonder a little how much of his work is in debt to Vitorrio Storraro (though you could say the same thing of Coppola and Bertolucci, really). Eastwood did one good movie, as far as I’m concerned– everything past “Unforgiven” is just unwatchable for me.
Interesting that most of the filmmakers you mention are what one might call “actor’s directors”, guys who I never really give a damn about, personally. Still, whatever. They’re all better than Reiner, more or less, we agree on that.
Sorry Bob, you’re right. THE PRINCESS BRIDE! How could I forget that one? HMMMMMMMMMMM. Easy. I forgot it because its TRASH! Just like EVERY MOVIE this guy ever made. I’ll quote Woody Allen in NEW YORK STORIES: “If I ever get ahold of this guy I’m gonna dismember him and then sue him!l
Oh, c’mon! It’s got Andre the Giant! Everybody loves Andre the Giant, right?
…right?
Fascinating discussion people. Just got in from the Film Forum and need to get working on the Monday Morning Diary. I will add my two cents tomorrow.
Andre? The only thing he ever did of notice, and I’m really dating myself here, was playing the legendary monster BIGFOOT on that awful 70′s sci-fi show THE SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN. His master on the show, an alien from another planet living in a flying saucer in the woods of Montana was played by Stephanie Powers. I’d like to douse every episode of that show, along with all of Rob Reiners films, in gasoline and flick my cigarette at em! BURN BABY BURN!!!!!!!
Well, he also inspired that graffiti-artist guy who did the Obama “Hope” poster, so there’s that. OBEY
I’m a liberal and I can admit that guys a big wank.
Far from a fascinating discussion here Schmulee. Unless you find watching someone take a dump in public fascinating. Then again, when I think of Rob Reiner as a director the image of someone taking a dump in public immediately comes to my mind.
Hey Dennis, Jason just got me on instant e mail. Guess what?
Despite telling me last week that he thought Tarantino was a sleaze bag, he now tells me he saw IB over the weekend and it’s his #1 film of the year! Can you believe that?
I for one find this film totally hilarious, and I don’t get the vitriol at all. Maybe you have to listen to this kind of music at least a little to get the humor — the overblown pretentious mumbo jumbo, the addled rock stars, the crazy stage shows that dwarf the actual music. It just *perfectly* skewers and mocks that particular brand of rock excess. Would I put it in my own list? Nah, but then I think the 80s were a far better decade than Allan apparently does. Regardless, I can certainly see why he’d place this very funny, irreverent film so high. The Stonehenge gag alone makes it worthwhile.
Well, yeah. If you’re not into Heavy Metal, you’re not gonna get the jokes, so it’s not for you. I spend most of my time listening to Sting and Steely Dan, yet it’s not like I’d enjoy a parody of them, either. The closest I can stand to anybody mocking my choices in music are Patrick Bateman’s soliloquies on Huey Lewis and Phil Collins, which I can laugh at even though I agree with most of what he’s saying.
DICK TRACY is the BOMB!!!! Beattys collaboration with Storaro, along with the primary color laden set designs and the amazing prosthetics that captured Chester Goulds mutant criminals was dead on. The over the top performnces (particularly Pacino and Hoffman) solidify the illusion and create, beautifully, a living comic strip. Danny Elfmans Gershwin inspired score and Sondheims songs (delivered perfectly by Madonna) are the icing on the cake. DICK TRACY is a forgotten and under-rated gem. I’ve loved that film since I first saw it in a double feature with a most excellent Roger Rabbit short called ROLLERCOASTER ROGER. Roger is left to watch Baby Herman in an amusement park. The kid slips out of his sight and onto a rollrcoaster, then (ahhh fuck, you get the idea…).
Hell yeah. I also really admire just how unrepentently VIOLENT the movie is, especially for what is ostensibly a kid’s movie. Sure, there’s not really any gore, but exactly how many of Big Boy’s goons does Tracy shoot up full of holes? It’s quite the body count he personally leaves at the end– like Albert Finney in “Miller’s Crossing”, he’s quite an artist with the Thompson…
That’s UNBELIEVABLE Schmulee! LOL!!!! Then again, considering who you’re talking about NOTHING IS UNBELIEVABLE. LOL! Always puts his foot in his mouth. LOL!
Well, I promised yesterday there would be vitriol as I can predict everyone’s taste. I sure got it. Dennis, a world of wrong. Bob – well, we disagree on everything. You could have a dream where you have Scarlett Johansson dangling naked from a chandalier purring “take me!” and you’d say “come on, I wanted Megan Fox!” As Jesus said to the ex-leper, “there’s no pleasing some people!”
Sam, Dennis is right, stop saying things are fascinating. Far from fascinating, but what I expected and predicted yesterday. What sort of fence do you want for Christmas, that one you’ve been sitting in ad infinitum is getting worn down.
BTW – Sam hates Spinal Tap, too, but then again, I knew he would.
Well, I was close in my prediction as to what the film would be. A mock documentary on a fading pop-music icon in the 80′s– that’s more or less what “This is Spinal Tap” is. Though I’d rather watch the sheer boredom of “Give My Regards to Broadstreet” just for the opportunity to listen to Paul, hang with Ringo and oggle Linda.
That reminds me– isn’t much of the same ground “Spinal Tap” mines already covered in “A Hard Day’s Night”, only with a different genre of music, likable chaps and far less misanthropic perspective? Or, if you wanted to focus on Heavy Metal with actual people (and therefore more hilarious results), Penelope Spheeris’ “The Decline of Western Civilization, Part 2″? She was actually offered the chance to direct “Spinal Tap” herself. Perhaps if she didn’t know better, the resulting film would’ve been more deserving of our attention.
While I like ‘The Decline of Western Civilization, Part 2′ (I prefer the first and then 3rd ones more but whatever), if I was making a pick for this type of thing it’s hard to beat ‘Heavy Metal Parking Lot’. If you’ve never seen it’s on youtube and is under 30 mins.
And by the way, if I was purred at by a naked Scarlet Johansen from a chandelier, I’d probably be too busy wondering how the hell she got up there, and how the hell I was supposed to bring her down without hurting herself, to waffle on the blonde-vs-brunette issue.
Seriously, what’s she doing in a chandelier? Is she about to kill herself, or something? Perhaps she already has, and that purring noise is merely a death-rattle. Fish, you sick bastard.
Good one Bob! Even Allen laughed about it on the phone before!
Frankly, Dennis and Bob, I can’t agree with your assessment. I will watch This is Spinal Tap before I’ll watch The Last Emperor (a beautiful piece of cinema), because it makes me laugh. Not all important films are serious dramas. Even comedies can expose the human condition.
It’s a look at a world that we wish was dying, but isn’t. A friend of mine who recently left the music industry (albeit in Canada) said This is Spinal Tap isn’t so much a mocumentary, as a documentary. He has dealt with the same kinds of people in his career: the talentless stars, the hangers-on, the incompetent and/or ambitious promotional assholes–even as recently as 2007.
This says to me that the film has relevance, because it tells us something about our culture, and in a way that is irreverent, but at the same time, deadly serious. If guys like Nigel, David and Derek are considered “important figures” (in any arena), this world is seriously screwed up.
Tremendous post here Jeopardy Girl!
Rob Reiner’s work as a director is at best mediocre. Not a fan of heavy metal I still think the film hits some great satirical marks as far as a look at delusional over important rock stars are concerned. However, in retrospect, I think this may have more to do with Christopher Guest, who co-wrote the script than Reiner. I personally, think Reiner’s work is only as good as his writers. Reiner’s best film, for me, is When Harry Met Sally, imitation Woody, but with a good script and engaging performances from its two leads. Stand By Me, Ghost of Mississippi, Misery, The Sure Thing, A Few Good Men and This is Spinal Tap are okay films with variable levels of quality. The rest of his filmography is pretty much pure drivel. The Bucket List, The Story of Us, Alex and Emma, Rumor Has It makes me wish Carl Reiner were a much younger man and still active. I‘d rather watch “Dead Men Don’t Wear Plaid”, “The Comic” and “Where’s Poppa?” Admittedly, there are a few films like The Princess Bride, I have not seen.
Always interesting to hear your perspective Allan.
Great call here on ‘Dead Man Don’t Wear Plaid’… one of the ‘cleverest’ little exercises I’ve ever seen.
John, as a whole I have also found his work mediocre, but there are fervant fans for SPINAL TAP especially of his films.
I actually like Stand By Me… it will certainly be on my soon to be completed 80s list. But, perhaps it’s more nostalgia than anything else that has me considering the film this high.
Oh my God Dave, I MUST get over to GoodFellas right now!!! Ha!!! I went with CELINE AND JULIE as #1, but GODFATHER II could well have been the choice too.
Yes, nostalgia is the prime appeal of STAND BY ME. Love that pie-eating scene!!! Ha!
Well Jeopradygirl, I’ll certainly defend your right to like a film, I”l defend anyone’s right to an opinion. But just because a film is funny you rank it better than an emotional masterpierce like THE LAST EMPEROR. These pictures aren’t even in the same ball-park. I find it interesting, and its just curiosity and not an attack on you, why anyone could best a film like Bertolucci’s with a film that has none of the artistic qualities of even a mediocre documentary? These films couldn’t be more different, I think the comparison and the simple reason of liking it because it makes you laugh is a little unfair.
What is the strange bias for “emotional masterpieces.” Hell does anyone have a damn sense of humor. It was a sigh of relief to see a great comedy to get its own page on this site. The last other comedy I say here was Kind Hearts and Cornets and Dr. Strangelove (also deserving of their place). Comedies just don’t get enough respect from film buffs do they? And in my opinion, This Is Spinal Tap is up there with some of the greatest “Emotional Masterpieces” out there.
Anu, you are quite right again. When we make the mistake of devaluing comedy to boost serious subjects we commit a cardinal sin of filmmaking and of writing in general.
You mention KIND HEARTS AND CORONETS, which is not only th egreatest black comedy ever made, but one of the greatest of all British films, period. Sadly you strike the right chord when you assert that comedies never get any respect. This is true right down the line, and it’s unjust, as some of the greatest artists of all were the great comedians: Chaplin, Keaton, Lloyd, Laurel and Hardy, Marx Brothers, W.C. Fields, right on through Sturges, Lubitsch, Hay, Tati, Allen, et al.
I’m quite perplexed by the vitriol and disagreement. I get it on Scarface, which I myself rank highly (it would probably be higher than Spinal Tap, to compare apples and oranges) but really Spinal Tap is about as close to the canon as any comedy from the past 30 years. It’s really not that controversial of a choice! You’ll find it on many best-of lists, the movie and even the band have still have a following… I think Bob is closest to the mark when he says it doesn’t work for him, but he can see how influential it is and why people like it.
Disagree with Allan if you want, but why on earth would you be perplexed? This is by no means a shocking choice…
Also, I watched it expecting to find a somewhat dated comedy which was no longer all that funny, its originality having been absorbed into the popular culture (I knew the line “This one goes to 11″ without finding it worth much more than a chuckle). But I laughed uproariously, far more than at, say, Airplane! or Animal House, two other comedies of the era which also occasionally make best-of lists (this one’s far more clever and imaginative, though).
Movie Man:
Actually outside of Dennis (and I am not a big fan either) the entire thread here are SPINAL TAP fans–you, Ed, Allan, Anu, Jeopardy Girl, and Bob is split. And it indeed has been recipient to superlative reviews, hence you are right: th echoice here should not the least be shocking. Good comparisons there with the laughter quotient beyond that of ANIMAL HOUSE and AIRPLANE! but I would pose that Ashby’s BEING THERE (1979) is the greatest comedy of them all for that period, or at least since THE PRODUCERS (1968).
I’m not split on “Spinal Tap”. I don’t like it, and that’s it. But just because I don’t like it doesn’t mean I’m stupid enough not to recognize that it started the whole mockumentary movement (or at least popularized it), or stubborn enough to refuse admitting it. “Spinal Tap” is an important movie, but it’s one I don’t really enjoy, and it’s part of a whole genre that I have very little use for, as well. I’m with you and Dennis on this, personally– I don’t have any idea what it’s doing on this list, influence or not– but I can still acknowledge the fact that it has a place in film history, for good or ill.
If I felt stronger about it, I might make more of a stand as I did in the “Scarface” thread, but as it stands, I don’t hate “Spinal Tap”. I just feel wholly indifferent to it. I can’t think of any more deserving condemnation of it than that.
Well Bob, you are clear enough there. I have opposed Allan for four years on the film, but after reading his review, and then th eexcellent defenses of it here by Ed, Jeopardy Girl, Anu, and Movie Man, I also will back off, especially since the ‘comedy’ as a vital form is being further validated by it’s reverence. Buy yes Bob, it never did anything for me either. None of Reiner’s work has although STAND BY ME was fair enough. I do hope Bob that you are a fan of BEING THERE, though.
“Being There” is another one of those films I’ve yet to see, primarily because of how cold I feel towards Hal Ashby films (Look, I’m really sorry if this makes me sound like a superficial, intellectually inferior cretin, but “Harold and Maude”: Ew). And while I appreciate his work, I’m not that big of a Sellars fan, or at least not enough to track it down any time soon. As far as Reiner goes, I think John said it best that the quality of his work is in direct proportion to the person writing the screenplay. When he’s with William Goldman or Aaron Sorkin, he’s on solid ground, when he’s with somebody else, the results can be shaky, and when there’s practically no script at all, as in the case of an improv-based movie like “Spinal Tap”, and he’s pretty much in creative freefall.
OK Bob, that is an excellent point that John made about Reiner being only as good as his script writer, and your specific clarification is sound enough.
However, I urge you to see BEING THERE. E mail me and a copy will be in the mail. In my opinion it’s one of the best-written satires of the past 40 years in American film, and it’s the screenplay here, not Ashby, a point you just rightly posed with Reiner.
‘Being there’ is OK. I think ‘The Last Detail’ is Ashby’s best, I really adore that film.
Best comedy of the last 30 years…. hmm that’s tough. A part of me want’s to include ‘American Movie’ as well but I also think that’s pretty serious. Comedy is such a subjective thing for me (more so then ANY genre). Hell I laugh during ‘Falling down’ as much as I do ‘Planes, Trains, and Automobiles’.
And yet Jamie, many will say ANIMAL HOUSE is tops.
Of course I believe Mel Brooks’s THE PRODUCERS to be the best satire of the past 40 years, with BEING THERE as a close seond.
Well, since I have been reading a bio on Hal Ashby I will just add a few thoughts of my own. “Being There” is an excellent satire, based on a great book by Jerzy Kosinski. Along with The Last Detail (one of Nicholson’s best performances), Bound for Glory and Coming Home, are Ashby’s best works. The common thread running through Ashby’s films is that of the outsider against the establishment, which he identified with and was in synch with the times. Today, other than The Last Detail, Ashby’s work seems to, and I may be wrong here, not be regarded as highly as it once was. Maybe a sign of the times we live in. After Being There, his work, career went downhill along with his life.
John: Oddly enough, a number of people would pose SHAMPOO as Ashby’s greatest film, while others would defiantly go with the cultish HAROLD AND MAUDE, but I have alwats felt BEING THERE was the masterpiece, mainly because of the astute point you bring up there about Kasinski’s brilliant novel which I read back then myself. Tremendous commen there John!
Well, “Shampoo” is another one of those films that’s there but for the grace of its screenwriters. All due respect to Mr. Asby, but it’s easy to imagine that film directed by either Robert Towne, or especially Warren Beatty, and still turning out every bit the classic they had in mind.
You know Bob, in a sense it isn’t fair to Ashby that nearly all his films are to be credited to his screen writers. While that element is irrefutable, one must look at the way he orchestrates the script and the acting. This is one director who I do believe will be respected more and more over time. It’s true he was blessed with some sturdy screenplays though.
True, but I’m admirer of Towne’s & Beatty’s work, so it’s a longstanding thing that doesn’t quite have to do with Ashby himself on this one. I’m also pointing them out because of both of them tried their hands with directing later, Beatty experiencing tremendous success. Knowing their creative involvement in the film is what makes me want to see that sooner than “Being There”. I’ve a bit of catching up to do, at any rate.
Bob is correct in crediting Shampoo to Beatty and Towne. According the bio, Beatty and Towne were controlling much of what happened, for example, the music to the soundtrack. Ashby wanted to used music similar to the way he did in “Coming Home”, primarily music from ‘66-’68 era, which was overruled. In additions, Beatty and Towne would have discussions between themselves excluding Ashby.
Shampoo was a project Beatty and Towne had been working on for years. Ashby’s working method was collaborative. He liked getting input and inclusion from all and then would make the decision which way to go. With B&T though, he did get frustrated. To his credit his collaborative method of working was well liked by actors and others behind the scenes on his films
Fair enough John. That info is pretty definitive as far as I see it. I’d be most interested when you get through the work to learn of Ashby’s ultimate complicity on some of the other films, including BEING THERE, which we know is primarily Kozinski’s vision.
Dennis, I didn’t say it was better, just that I would watch it more readily. For some films, you have to be in the right frame of mind, and Bertolucci’s classic is one of those for me.
Jeopardy Girl: You and Anu are 100% right. One’s mood will fluctuate. There will be times a comedy is desired and others, when a heavy drama is preferred. I am not a big fan of THIS IS SPINAL TAP, but I love other rock-themed works, and comedy is one of my favorite genres, period.
Yes, Sam, but as I said on the phone, THIS ISN’T ROCK…it’s like calling Babes in Arms pop music. You need to get the transparent pretentious phoneyness of the whole scene, to have heard the often God-awful music, to understand how truly inspired it is. You’re just not of the generation, extreme rock for you is the Stones.
NIN and Tool were “serious artists” but Priest and Dio, etc, were a joke? Can you be serious??? At least they created great music without the constant use of swear words like NIN and Tool and Korn and all that later GARBAGE. Oh, and Rob Reiner’s politics are the real JOKE.