Best American Neo Noir (or borderline Neo Noir)
For those of you who asked, I came up with this list…
Best Of The 70′s
1. Taxi Driver
2. Chinatown
3. The Godfather II
4. The Godfather
5. Klute
6. The Long Goodbye
7. Night Moves
8. The Conversation
9. Bring Me The Head Of Alfredo Garcia
10. All The Presidents Men
11. Dog Day Afternoon
12. Serpico
13. The Friends Of Eddie Coyle
14. The Killing Of A Chinese Bookie
15. The Parallax View
16. Farewell My Lovely
17. The French Connection
Best Of The 80′s
1. Blue Velvet
2. Raging Bull
3. Blade Runner
4. Body Heat
5. Cutter’s Way
6. Blow Out
7. Once Upon A Time In America
8. Angel Heart
9. Hammett
10. Thief
11. Blood Simple
Best Of The 90′s
1. Heat
2. Lost Highway
3. LA Confidential
4. Goodfellas
5. Seven
6. Eyes Wide Shut
7. The Usual Suspects
8. Gattaca
9. Twin Peaks Fire Walk With Me
10. Lone Star
11. Fargo
Best Of The 00′s
1. Zodiac
2. No Country For Old Men
3. Mulholland Drive
4. Memento
5. Road To Perdition
6. Mystic River
7. Public Enemies
8. A History Of Violence
9. Eastern Promises
10. The Man Who Wasn’t There
11. Before The Devil Knows Your Dead
Hi! Maurizo Roca…
Nice list…However, I would have placed
“Chinatown”
first and “Taxi Driver” at No#2…Only after reading this article…Sparknotes…and the following quote…
DeeDee
Picking between Chinatown and Taxi Driver was very hard Dee Dee. They would also be 1 and 2 overall regardless of decade. Two of my favorite films by two of my favorite directors.
Very nice list! Alto, for the ’90s, I would have also included THE GRIFTERS, AFTER DARK, MY SWEET and RED ROCK WEST.
RESERVOIR DOGS and PULP FICTION are glaring.
I am not a big fan of The Grifters. I know many people consider it a classic but I just never liked that film. The other two you mention J.D., are both good but just missed the countdown. As for Tarantino… I partially don’t consider his films to be neo noir as well as not being the biggest fan of his. Pulp Fiction and Goodfellas are both in the same boat. They really seem way to borderline for me to include. In terms of quality, the Scorsese film is worthy, but I had to draw some line. It is a reason I scrapped the whole idea of including this vague genre in the first place. Is Lone Star, Talented Mr Ripley, and say something like 12 Monkeys really neo noir?? A hard thing to judge in the end.
Well it’s funny to consider GATTACA, DARK CITY, and EYES WIDE SHUT neo-noir and not the first two Tarantino’s.
I can’t argue with you Jamie. It’s really hard deciding what is neo noir and what isn’t. I’m not a huge fan of Tarantino and gladly left him out. Some of my selections can be argued due to validity. I admit it myself. Impossible to have a concrete criteria.
Agreed, that’s why you open the barn doors and let it all in…
A shame the 60′s is so under represented, as Fuller did a few sublime Noir’s that decade (SHOCK CORRIDOR, NAKED KISS, and UNDERWORLD USA being three), BLAST OF SILENCE is authentic noir that I’d put in my top 10 of the genre (for any era), JOHNNY COOL is a personal favorite, HUD, though a Western more so does have Noir elements (especially if something like NO COUNTRY is being considered), TOPKAPI is underrated by my estimation, BONNIE AND CLYDE should be on this list no?, IN COLD BLOOD a beautiful and savage film, and finally, Corman’s ST. VALENTINE’S DAY MASSACRE is a personal favorite (I love that true life story).
Obviously I feel post the initial American Noir boom, foreign neo-Noir are the best crime films (and the reason I got into these type of films in the first place many years ago) made. Godard, Chabrol and Melville carried the torch so well for the French (not to mention Becker and the one Truffaut SHOOT THE PIANO PLAYER), and then there are the Japanese: Suzuki, Masumura, Imamura, Shinoda, and Oshima made some of my favorite films ever (of any genre; crime or otherwise). MAFIOSO an Italian example, LOVE IS COLDER THEN DEATH a German one, and VICTIM a British one.
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Overall I’d say every decade is largely Hollywood mainstream releases, omitting much of the exploitation and indy fare that became increasingly wild as decades passed…
Jamie let me try to get through all your points……
1. I am not a huge fan of Samuel Fuller. Only two of his films do anything for me. None of the movies you mention.
2. Hud and In Cold Blood do not feel noir to me at all.
3. Blast Of Silence and St. Valentine Day Massacre are not very good in my eyes.
4. I have never seen Johnny Cool.
5. Bonnie And Clyde I watched again recently after Penn died and really grew to love that film more than ever. Quality wise it should be on the list…I just don’t view it as neo noir at all. All these decisions prove the craziness of trying to get this genre in place. Headache inducing…
6. I will post a foreign crime film list some time in the future. I wanted to keep them separated.
Interesting that you include Raging Bull as neo-noir. I’m still thinking about that. Chinatown is probably te most famous American neo-noir since the classic cycle.
That and FRENCH CONNECTION, which seems strangely left off (Maurizio clearly likes Hackman). That film’s reputation has waned over the years though.
I am not a fan of The French Connection. It’s waning reputation is deserved. Me and Sam recently discussed our mutual dislike for that film.
Raging Bull is borderline. I could of easily left it off.
Interesting list. I would probably not include The Godfather movies or Raging Bull, or a couple others on this list as noir, but I can see your argument.
I can see now why you didn’t want to include neo-noirs in your main list. There are so many major great ones, over such a long period of time, that they would end up swamping the purity of your list. You wouldn’t be able to include all the little obscure ones that you want to include and draw attention to, instead just naming a lot of the most famous ones over again. I think your list will likely be more unique and better for this decision.
Yeah including neo noirs in a top fifty list with older films would of turned into a mess. Best to post this list and get the hell out lol. Even this list leaves me somewhat unsatisfied…
Maurizio, I was also startled that Tarantino was left out, as he is so often regarded as the prime figure in any discussion of American neo-noir. As you probably remember I am not a huge fan of his work, but I recognize his pre-eminence in defining a style and a culture. Your list is nonetheless comprehensive and an excellent supplement in perspective your onrunning consideration of the classic cycle. I guess if we leave these shores, we would bring John Wood into the discussion. But doing so would violate the original parameters, and I agree with the limitation as such.
None other than your former college professor, the esteemed Foster Hirsch, delineates in his book “Detours and Lost Highways: A Map of Neo-Noir” that neo-noir deserves generic status:
Detours and Lost Highways: A Map of Neo-Noir
I don’t consider neo-noir noir – if that makes sense. In fact I don’t like most of the movies labelled as neo-noir. Where there was restraint and intelligence you now have excess and pastiche – as I have said before the label neo-noir covers a multitude of sins. There are some great films on Maurizio’s list, but their greatness does not stem from their noir elements.
I can understand your reluctance to tie one movement with the other Tony. There are clear differences between the two “genres” which I feel has more to do with the passage of time, more than anything else. I think the noir elements are expressed in opposite ways due to the freedom modern filmmakers possess.
I tend to agree just for the simple fact that if you are a fan of the golden age of Noir there is a consistency in message and look (since is was only 10 or 15 year span. Whereas thinking about Neo-Noir’s you’re putting, say, Godard’s BAND OF OUTSIDERS along with SE7EN (a movie I dislike but whatever), which seems really strange. The eras are just so vast and styles so wide.
That being said I like genuine Neo-Noirs better… not the ones Maurizio is generally talking about here (such as GODFATHERS and RAGING BULL) I’m talking about the films that were made as genuine homages to American crime films of the Noir period: the early Suzuki’s, Fassbinder’s, Melville’s and Godard’s for example.
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Off topic by why does spellcheck catch ‘Noir’? Seems like it shouldn’t.
Terrific list. I’d also like to give added support to “Red Rock West”, as well as John Dahl’s followup “The Last Seduction”. And I know you probably didn’t want to saturate the 90′s completely with David Lynch, but I’ll also mention “Wild at Heart”.
Those are good films that just missed the list. Well actually I’m not a huge fan of Wild At Heart but the other two are okay. I haven’t seen any of them in a while though.
I’m not sure what a neo-noir is supposed to be, though I assume it must be a matter of content rather than form, since few of the listed films really qualify as pastiche, and that it’s not just a synonym for “modern crime film.” I don’t think of the Godfather films as noirs, neo or otherwise, for instance, but that may just be a quirk of mine. But looking at the Seventies list, it struck me that Ulu Grosbard’s Straight Time probably belonged there more than some of the actual selections. So is that not neo-noir or simply not good enough for the final cut?
Samuel I have no idea what neo noir is either lol. You can see common links between films, but its all hard to pin down into a neat little package. I wrote a criteria of what I think it represents in the Noir Introduction and how it can be labeled. Still I struggle with a clear cut outline and total definition that feels 100% satisfying. Straight Time I have not seen yet. It’s absence is due to that factor at the present moment. I will put it on my Netflix list and watch it soon.
Maurizo – I love this list! What a great companion piece to the current Noir countdown.
I couldn’t argue with a single film you’ve placed on here…though there are a few of the older ones I haven’t seen yet and a few I would probably add (Red Rock West and The Last Seduction come to mind instantly).
…and I’ve been making the case since the end of last July that 2010 was the year of the Neo-Noir renaissance:
http://theschleicherspin.com/2010/07/24/the-neo-noir-renaissance/
Fantastic list. These are basically my favorite movies of all time. Anything I haven’t seen on here, MAN, I need to go see! Great stuff.
You have exquisite taste Richard. One movie I forgot to add that I love is Mulholland Falls. I find that one better than some of the other 90′s films people were suggesting. I’ll take it over Red Rock West or After Dark My Sweet.
I’m always happy to see Blade Runner on lists of neo-noir, because that’s how I see it, hear it. The SF doesn’t matter so much to me, because it could be set anywhere, it just happens to be the future. Probably my favorite film of all time, Blade Runner. Memento is another one I love watching. Basically I’m a big fan of Lynch, Fincher and Nolan.
A lot of these films have been a huge influence to my writing, which I consider neo-noir. Do you have a list of your favorite neo-noir authors or books up here? I’ll look around a bit. But it’s hard to find neo-noir attributed to literature. At least, as much as I’d like.
You’d probably call Palahniuk transgressive, not NN. Lehane gets the NN label a lot. Beyond that? Unless you talk about more obscure authors, like Will Christopher Baer, Craig Clevenger, and Stephen Graham Jones, I don’t have a huge list. Some of PKD maybe, but really, everyone associates him with SF.
Thoughts?
Pierce’s speech about not being able to feel time and heal is a great moment in neo noir cinema. I don’t have a list of great authors up. I like Ellroy, Lehane, Thompson, and some of the older guys like Chandler and Cain. The truth though is between my obsession with film, music, soccer, and razz poker (not to mention practical life responsibilities) I don’t read as much as I should. I guess I have sacrificed that area of art though I am not happy about it.
Not wanting to jump in, but Haruki Murakami would be a ‘neo-noir’ pulp writer I think. His books are post-modern takes on Pulp stuff, but then he also works on this whole other brilliant level.
Start with ‘Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World’, then read his masterpiece ‘The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle’. From their you can pick on your own as you’ll be a rabid fan.
I’ve also viewed much of JG Ballard as somewhat transgressive in a Noir way. ‘Crash’ seems that way in parts.
Great comment, Jamie. Just re-read WIND-UP BIRD and man I love that book. I’d add him in, but I almost lean surrealist with him. I need to go pick up CRASH again, started it once, and bailed, not sure why.
Oh, Maurizio, I added you guys to my blogroll and posted up about this article. If you want to add me to the blogroll here, I’d be thrilled. I have one book out, a neo-noir, speculative thriller and I’m shopping my 2nd one, a neo-noir, transgressive thriller right now. Had a story in SHIVERS VI with Stephen King and Peter Straub. Samples of my writing are up at http://www.whatdoestnokillme.com and my book is at http://www.transubstantiate.net
Jamie, as far as Ballard, would you start with CRASH or is there another book of his you’d suggest?
Thanks so much for stopping by and making such great coments here at WitD Richard. Many thanks also for including us on your blogroll. I will be adding your blog to our own site’s blogroll within minutes!
‘Crash’ is a good one to start with, I lean towards ‘Atrocity Exhibition’ right now as sort of an essential Ballard. It’s tougher to get into compared to ‘Crash’ though as it’s pretty experimental. Ballard certainly played with form a lot so to avoid that whole side of his career is strange. Knowing you like BLADE RUNNER you might also really dig ‘Concrete Island’.
From their you can dive into all the great dark UK stuff he inspired, stuff like Irvine Welsh and Iain Banks.
Richard, sweet that you had a reading of your book at Quimby’s in Chicago. That’s a crazy cool bookstore. I’m a Chicagoan myself.
Thanks, Jamie. It was a good time. Love Quimby’s. Lived in Wicker Park for 12 years. Now in the suburbs. If you get a chance to check out the Literary Death Matches OR the Quickies! series, both are well worth it.
Thanks, Sam, appreciate that.
Appreciate the suggestions, Jamie. CONCRETE ISLAND looks pretty cool, have to add that to my list. Thanks for that.
Yeah Sam is the big honcho around these parts Richard. I will definitely check out your book and site as soon as possible. I can’t believe I’m still blogging when I’m moving tomorrow morning lol. I’m surrounded by countless boxes and bags. I just put all my dvds away gently. I made sure to pack them with those little bubbly sheets as if they were fragile or something.
Awesome, thanks guys. This site really made my day, like a vortex, a rabbit hole I’ve pretty much fallen down. So much goodness here at the site, very cool. Have a safe move, brother.