(Ingmar Bergman, 1968)
(essay by Kevin)
“The Hour of the Wolf” is the hour between night and dawn. It is the hour when most people die. It is the hour when the sleepless are haunted by their deepest fear, when ghosts and demons are most powerful.
Imagine if I told you that the tagline above is for a movie called The Cannibals – sounds like an ordinary horror film, doesn’t it? Now, imagine I tell you that the above tagline is for a movie directed by Ingmar Bergman – you would probably think it was an art-house film about the dark night of the soul. Okay, so now I will tell you that Ingmar Bergman – after having a nervous breakdown – decided to make two of his darkest and most personal films in the form of Persona (a wildly popular and revered film art-house film) and Hour of the Wolf (originally entitled The Cannibals). As odd as it may seem to see an Ingmar Bergman on a list for the best horror films I’ve always felt that it was around this time of the 60’s and 70’s that Bergman was not only making the best movies of his career, but he was also doing it in the form of deeply introspective and contemplative films that came from the darkest depths of the man’s artistry and philosophies.
During these two decades – two of the most experimental for film – Bergman was essentially making art-house horror films in the form of: Persona, A Passion, Hour of the Wolf, Shame, The Silence, and Cries and Whispers. Bergman is certainly an unorthodox director to be speaking about in terms of horror film, but if one looks at the themes of the aforementioned films – and the fact that during the 60’s and 70’s he relied more heavily on the aesthetic of that era to shock and jolt the audience out of their malaise – it’s easy to see that Bergman made films that are, at their core, horror stories about human isolation, and like any good horror movie they contain humane and everyday characters who try their hardest to overcome the various perils and struggles they face. These philosophical and soul-searching conundrums are filtered through an aesthetic of unreality, and Hour of the Wolf is the most pronounced of this kind of arty horror story, and it’s one of the auteur’s most underrated films.
The film begins with the sounds of a film crew setting up a shot as a woman (Liv Ullmann) walks out of a cottage and approaches a bench. She sits in front of the camera and begins addressing it. She alludes to the fact that whoever is behind the camera is not going to get anymore information from her as they already have the journals. And then before much can be said we fade to black and see a boat approaching shore, and we wonder, as we always do with Bergman, what the Swedish auteur has up his sleeve this time. Obviously we’re being told a story, but what kind of story? And what deep themes is the master going to explicate this time? There’s a lot to say here about “the artist” (a favorite subject of Bergman’s), but for the sake of this countdown I will focus primarily on the psychological horror aspects of the film.
The people on the boat are Johan Borg (Max von Sydow) and his pregnant wife Alma (the woman from the opening shot), and they’re on their way to a remote cabin for what looks to be a getaway of sorts in hopes to jolt the creativity of Johan, a troubled painter. Things seem serene enough until Johan begins to confide in his wife his deepest and darkest fears. One day he shows her drawings of demonic figures he labels “the bird-man”, “spider-man”, “meat-eater”, “insect”, and “the lady with the hat”; these figures haunt him to the point of no sleep, and as the dawn approaches it brings with it the vargtimmen – “The Hour of the Wolf”. This is the time, Johan explains, that the most deaths and births occur, and ask Alma to stay by his side throughout the night to watch over him.
Needless to say eerie happenings begin to occur in the form of “demons” (they could specters from the past or hallucinations) popping up and interacting with Alma and Johan: a 216 year-old woman dressed in white who gives Alma some information about her husband’s diary; a beautiful woman, also dressed in white, who appears during one Johan’s bouts with artistic frustration, and claims to be one of Johan’s mistresses from the past; someone who claims that since Johan is an artist that he must really know people; and the most bizarre of the bunch a Baron named von Merkens who lives on the island and invites Alma and Johan to his castle.
Alma fears the worst after reading Johan’s diary, but she commits to facing whatever it is she fears is coming – the unnamed evil – while Johan remains stoic and unmoved by her experience, and in a powerful scene where Alma pours out her heart to Johan, he simply walks away from her. Then Bergman hits us with the title card for his movie and we fade back in on Johan’s face being lit by a match while Alma sits behind him (in deep focus, showcasing one of my very favorite moments from the master Sven Nykvist). It is now the vargtimmen – an exhausting marathon of dark secrets and nightmares. The scene is simple and understated (what else is new for a Bergman, right?), but creepy as hell as Johan begins telling Alma about a disturbing memory from his childhood where he was thrown into a closet as a form of punishment; a closet where, he was told, a little person lived who gnawed off the toes of naughty children. The way the scene is shot, lit, and acted makes something so simple so truly horrifying. He then moves on to telling her a story that he never thought he would tell anyone; a story of repressed homosexuality, sexual experimentation, violence, murder, and shame. It’s a story that changes everything for Alma, and it’s one of the most haunting, horrifying, and tautly constructed scenes Bergman ever filmed.
What follows falls into the category of straight horror as Alma and Johan are visited by the Baron who invites them once more to his castle. Johan wishes Alma to leave so that he may kill himself, but again she refuses to be a coward in the face of fear, and insists on staying with her husband. Once in the castle Johan is made up with makeup and a leather jacket, and his mistress (the woman who approaches him earlier in the movie) is waiting for him, tied to a table. The film ends with an ambiguous confrontation of the couple’s demons. We’re never quite sure whether or not what we’re seeing at the end is Johan’s demons or Alma’s, and Bergman ends his film the way he began it with Alma addressing the camera and asking the audience whether or not it’s true that if a woman stays with a man long enough, she becomes like that man. Essentially that loving that man for that long and living with that man for that long will eventually change a woman, but is it true, she asks us.
Hour of the Wolf isn’t just one of Bergman’s most personal films, as stated above, but it was one of his most necessary films as the filmmaker himself addresses in his fantastic book ‘Images: My Life in Film’ where he says:
Hour of the Wolf is seen by some as a regression after Persona. It isn’t that simple. Persona was a breakthrough, a success that gave me the courage to keep on searching along unknown paths. For several reasons that film has become a more open affair than others, more tangible: a woman who is mute, another who speaks; therefore a conflict. Hour of the Wolf, on the other hand, is more vague. There is within that film a consciously formal and thematic disintegration. When I see Hour of the Wolf today, I understand that it is about a deep-seated division within me, both hidden and carefully monitored, visible in both my earlier and later work. To me, Hour of the Wolf is important since it is an attempt to encircle a hard-to-locate set of problems and get inside them. I dared to take a few steps, but I didn’t go the whole way.
It’s that last part that defines this film as horror, for me. That “daring” he speaks of. The film is haunting and uncomfortable; unconventional for a horror film, sure, but a horror film through and through as it succeeds in deconstructing the genre to its absolute core, and doing what all good horror films should do: displace the viewer.
Like all great Bergman films he utilizes sound (or the lack thereof) so brilliantly that it makes you squirm; there’s nothing more uncomfortable then sitting in silence, and Bergman often has his characters watch or react or briefly state something while the wind whooshes by or the sound of the breakers hitting the rocks roars in the background – the sound of an uneasy God, perhaps. This is nothing new if you’ve experienced any Bergman before, and as odd as it may sound his horror film actually shares a lot of attributes with the many of our top ten choices (which also see silence as an asset in horror). There’s a brilliant, tense scene early on where Johan sits and looks at a watch and makes his wife experience how long a minute is. Only Bergman could make something like this intense and frightening as we see Johan begin to splinter.
Hour of the Wolf is also a film where master cinematographer Sven Nykvist does some of his best work. Here is a film that is a perfect example of how paradoxical black and white photography can be as we have a plethora of images that are all at once beautiful and insanely eerie and displacing. It’s precisely why I refer to the film’s aesthetic above as unreal; the aforementioned scene of Johan murdering a boy is shot in a way that is jarring, yes, but it’s also never quite made clear whether or not this is something that he actually acted on, or just something he’s wrestled with internally since childhood. This has always been one of my five favorite films that Nykvist ever shot, and sadly I think that it’s one of his least recognized.
Horror is a genre that lends itself to a wide breadth, and Bergman maneuvered within that large space better than any other non-traditional horror filmmaker. The films I mentioned in the opening paragraph would never be considered horror films upon first mention, but if you begin to explicate the darker themes of Bergman further it’s easy to see how these films could be classified as horror films. Horror is all about preying on our fears, and one of the most universal fears is that of loneliness – of isolation – and no filmmaker understand this basic fear better than Ingmar Bergman.
(this film appeared on Kevin’s list at #6, Jamie’s list at #3, Robert’s list at #71, and Troy’s at #79)
Click on names for archives
Writers/Founders
Kevin, in general I do not watch horror films . In fact, I told Sam I was coming to Monday Morning Dairy with my hands over my eyes for the past month:) However, Ingmar Bergman’s HOUR OF THE WOLF is a movie that touched me deeply and one I think about often. I am glad to now know more about what was happening for Bergman at the time. Fantastic essay Kevin that does this incredible film justice.
Thank you for the kind words, creativepotager! I appreciate it.
Gotta confess something, this was my first and until now the only Bergman film I’ve seen. Well, as you may guess, this movie wasn’t really a good starter for anyone who’s interested in seeing a Bergman film.
I do not think it’s a great movie, and not even near a great horror movie, it didn’t work at all for me, it was just confusing and I couldn’t make anything out of it. I was amazed by the cinematography, acting and certain set pieces (**** was my rating), but I was waiting for certain ‘genius’ to be unveiled, since it was my first Bergman film, it didn’t show up.
I loved the way it started, but since then it took so many turns I just began to say that I didn’t care at all about it, and just looked at the pretty pictures. Funny, I don’t really know what it is with me, as I love surrealism and think that Buñuel is one of the greatest examples in that, and the only thing you can do with his earlier pictures is look at them. Yet, I rate them as one of the best ever made.
Who knows, I’m weird with my tastes, I like a movie and then a similar one comes along and I hate it because it’s way too much like that one. I’m just an animal of circunstances.
About the essay, I liked it and it made me remember what was the movie really about.
Maybe one day I’ll see it again, no soon.
Jaime, to watch this and only this is like judging Orson Welles on Confidential Report.
I don’t think I’ve judged Bergman here, at all, just that this doesn’t make me eager to start digging into Bergman. I saw some ‘Persona’ clips and loved them, who knows. I haven’t dismissed him… yet.
Hey– “Mr. Arkadin” is a pretty damn good movie. Better to judge Welles on that alone than “Lady From Shanghai”, at least.
Well, I’m not sure how to judge this comparison. If you like the complete ‘Confidential Report’ that criterion’s released (that vastly improves it) then it wouldn’t be a slam on ‘Hour of the Wolf’. Either way, I like this film quite a bit, I also agree it isn’t how one should judge Bergman. When one sees a handful of his other films, say 5 or 6, I think film opens up quite a bit too.
Oddly enough, since I’m a Horror fan first and foremost ‘Hour of the Wolf’ was also the first Bergman I saw. Rather then rendering me gun shy as it appears it has Jaime, it led me to Bergman quite quickly and head first. I saw most of the films from this era first, and quite enjoyed there anger, emotional rawness and intensity, scope of intelligence shown on faith and questioning, artistry, writing, photography, etc– basically the scope of Bergman’s genius. And it was funny, I saw ‘The Silence’ as my second Bergman (and it remains my personal favorite of his still, perhaps Jaime this should be your next Bergman too?), and for a while I thought of him almost as a ‘genre’ director– one that was subverting but staying in genre. I tended to, and still tend to, watch directors films rather then reading tons about them (which allows me to decide and form opinions rather then have them given to me) first, so I thought of Bergman this way for a long time. I still do I suppose, but rather then a presupposed genre, I believe he’s a genre director working within a genre he’s created.
_ _ _
I watched this a few months back, for this countdown, and I was working rather sporadically at the time, so I was up or sleeping at rather odd hours unaware of any sort of normal schedule. Oddly enough I watched this film around the actual Hour of the Wolf, ie, middle of the night in the pitch black stillness. I must say it did enhance the experience. The glow of the television illuminated much the same as the single candles do in this film (which Kevin’s top screencap shows). Brilliant stuff, highly esoteric/alienating as all great Horror must be.
Hour of the Wolf isn’t a bad film, but it’s mediocre by Bergman’s standards. Just working it out now I think there are at least 17 Bergmans I’d place above THOTW including one FAR better horror film, The Magician/Ansiktet.
Jaime – you need to see other Bergmans. Period. To have only seen one is a desertion of duty. Like saying you like music but have only listened to one Beethoven piece – say Fidelio – and didn’t like it.
Mr Arkadin better than Lady From Shanghai?? I don’t think so……
THE MAGICIAN… hmmm. Is it better, perhaps. I’ve only seen it once, and I haven’t gotten to the new Criterion yet, it very well could bounce this one. I didn’t think it was out yet, but I just looked it came out almost two weeks ago (reaches to wallet for credit card…)
Jamie G.
I would suggest starting with something less abrasive, 50’s output if you want to initiate yourself into the world of Bergman. I think the man is the greatest filmmaker of all time, and I would highly recommend you begin with the obvious choices like THE SEVENTH SEAL and WILD STRAWBERRIES, but also give SMILES OF A SUMMER NIGHT, SAWDUST AND TINSEL and THE MAGICIAN a shot. If you like any of those (and not to make too many assumptions or blanket statements, but any good cinephile should like at least one of those films) move onto the more challenging 60’s work: stuff like SHAME, THE SILENCE (one of my personal favorites), PERSONA, and my all time favorite CRIES AND WHISPERS.
His later output of film originally intended for Swedish television — FANNY AND ALEXANDER and SCENES FROM A MARRIAGE — are among the master’s best films, too. Although I would STRONGLY recommend that you find the Criterion discs as they have the option of watching the Swedish television version or the theatrical version…and you should watch the former over the latter.
Oh, and this is assumed almost, great piece Kevin.
While thinking of Bergman and Horror ties, you must also mention ‘The Virgin Spring’ that has been remade as a Horror film at least twice, most famously by Wes Craven in ‘The Last House on the Left’, and then in the harder to find, but superior, trash classic, ‘Avere vent’anni’ (aka ‘To Be Twenty’) from 1978 by giallo maestro Fernando Di Leo.
Yeah I stupidly forgot to mention THE VIRGIN SPRING thinking it was one his films from the 50’s (as I was making a point about the movies he made in the 60’s and 70’s), but I see that it was indeed released in 1960. D’oh!
Yes, it’s one of those 1959-1960 crossovers. It was previewed in 1959, but not seen publicly until 1960.
Allan, I’m still curious where that info comes from! (I know Halliwell has it as ’59 but what was his source?) Was it a private viewing?
Similar to Allen I can think of at least 10 better Bergman’s. I wouldn’t consider this anywhere near top ten of horror to be honest. I always tell people who are trying to discover Bergman to start with Wild Strawberries. That film seems to be the most viewer friendly. For me it still ranks as his best along with Persona and The Virgin Spring.
But to be fair to us compiling the list Maurizio, I’d bet in my top 50 Horror films there are at least 20 to 25 you haven’t seen. Sure there are 10 better Bergman’s, but this is a Horror countdown, not a list of Bergman’s.
A topic of conversation that is interesting is what is the initial Bergman to recommend. ‘Wild Strawberries’ is a great choice, as it’s slightly warmer then ‘The Seventh Seal’.
Though I’ve introduced about 5 people to Bergman in the past and it was always with ‘The Silence’, which probably isn’t fair, but ‘eh’.
Bergman like Hitchcock is almost unclassifiable when it comes to genre. Its a similar reason I have problems calling any Hitchcock film noir. They operate in their own sphere that almost insists on being in a separate category. Any Ingmar picture as horror is debatable in my eyes. Like others here I also favor The Magician and without question The Virgin Spring as possible horror choices if insisting on including a Bergman entry in this awesome countdown.
THE SILENCE, Jamie? Sheesh. That’s a tough one to start people off on. You’re a brave man, hehe.
I’ve actually done this before: If someone is interested in Bergman but is uneasy about an evening with dour Swedes, questions about the existence of God, and subtitles then I’d show ’em CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS or INTERIORS. Two masterpieces by the Woodman to introduce the uninitiated into Bergman’s themes and motifs.
I agree with Kevin on Bergman’s pre-eminence. I’ve always considered him the greatest director of all-time. And what a fabulous piece of writing here.
This is quite a discussion here, and I regret being away from the PC all day. (I saw this morning’s Ozu LATE AUTUMN at the IFC and went out with the family enjoying this beautiful weather for the duration of the day) Lucille and I will checking out Clint Eastwood and Matt Damon later tonite, so I must work in high gear to get the Diary completed.
This is a magnificent choice for this countdown, regardless of whether it is measured up against THE MAGICIAN for a spot or spots on this horror venture. I first saw this film when I was 17 at the now-defunct New Yorker Theatre as part of a triple feature with PERSONA and THE PASSIAN OF ANNA. It was actually one of the film’s that initiated my lifelong obsession with Bergman (Kevin knows exactly what I am talking about here) and the textual; definition of the title which asserts that the hour is a time when most people die–just before dusk. This is a mysterious work of surrealism that shows Bergman at his most unevern and avante garde, but it’s a frightening vision that conjurs up all kinds of unforgettable images, and is as attuned to this project as any film that has yet appeared.
Kevin, it is your final succinct sentence that captures this film perfectly:
“Horror is all about preying on our fears, and one of the most universal fears is that of loneliness – of isolation – and no filmmaker understand this basic fear better than Ingmar Bergman.”
Thanks, Sam. I love what you say in regards to the film being “a frightening vision” that shows Bergman “at his most uneven and avant garde”. I think that’s why I like it so much: there’s just this intense and insanely hypnotic element of uncharted waters that the filmmaker is guiding us through, and like he claimed himself in the quote I added to my essay, he “dared” to take us along with him to these unknown places of the soul. It remains an uneven film, yes, but I think because the whole thing feels like an 88 minute fever dream. The entire film is jolting and unnerving in the same way the opening of PERSONA is. It’s scary when we follow a filmmaker towards a conclusion that he himself is unsure of. BUT that’s what made Bergman so damn wonderful. Damn I miss him.
Aye, Kevin I miss him terribly as well. I agree with everything you say here, including the film being a ‘fever dream’ as an explanation for the seeming uneven quality.
Before I comment on the piece & this particular movie, I see we’re discussing best/favorite Bergmans. Here’s my list. The early ones I’m a bit hazy on (some of his melodramas tend to blur together) but based on what I remember, and what I remember liking. Most are based on one viewing, and the list could wildly fluctuate upon repeat visits. It’s more favorites than best; ex: in terms of skill and craftsmanship, Smiles of a Summer Night is by far his best film up to that point but there are a few others I like more; The Silence is clearly the most perfectly directed of the trilogy but Through a Glass Darkly resonates more with me. (On the other hand, I love a certain dream sequence in Devil’s Wanton which might edge it even higher on a strictly-favorites list but I tried to have some sort of balance here between personal taste and recognition of accomplishment):
1. Persona (1966)
2. The Virgin Spring (1960)
3. The Seventh Seal (1957)
4. Through a Glass Darkly (1961)
5. Scenes from a Marriage (1973)
6. Wild Strawberries (1957)
7. The Silence (1963)
8. Cries and Whispers (1972)
9. Fanny and Alexander (1982)
10. Hour of the Wolf (1968)
11. The Passion of Anna (1969)
12. Summer of Monika (1953)
13. Autumn Sonata (1978)
14. Shame (1968)
15. Winter Light (1963)
16. Journey into Autumn (1955)
17. Summer Interlude (1950)
18. Smiles of a Summer Night (1955)
19. Sawdust and Tinsel (1953)
20. Saraband (2003)
21. From the Life of Marionettes (1980)
22. Face to Face (1976)
23. The Magic Flute (1975)
24. The Magician (1959)
25. Waiting Women (1952)
26. To Joy (1950)
27. The Devil’s Wanton (1949)
28. A Lesson in Love (1954)
29. The Serpent’s Egg (1977)
30. The Rite (1969)
31. Crisis (1946)
32. Port of Call (1948)
33. Thirst (1949)
34. The Touch (1971)
35. The Devil’s Eye (1960)
36. All These Women (1964)
37. Night is My Future (1948)
Great piece, Kevin – one of your best. What I love about this film, and Bergman, is that the man could just do balls-out pretentious art films in a way that just makes you giddy. I mean, look at that plot summary, and you might expect something silly and/or impenetrable. At times it’s both but it’s brilliant and moving and thrilling as well and the “theatrical” aspect (not in terms of execution, but conception) only adds to that resonance – that feeling that finally someone isn’t afraid to walk right out on that tightrope and just keep going and going. I agree with Jamie that Bergman is a genre filmmaker, and that his genre is “Bergmanesque.”
Thanks! I appreciate the kind words. I agree with your assessment on Bergman being able to make pretentious films that can be enjoyed on multiple levels. I like your list a lot, and the only difference I between out lists would be that THE VIRGIN SPRING is more like 15-20 range for me; CRIES AND WHISPERS is numero uno (or eins, as it where); and WINTER LIGHT would be in the top 10 for me. Otherwise I think we’re pretty much on the same wavelength. Great list. And thanks again for the kind words regarding this post. I appreciate it.
Fanny and Alexander, Cries and Whispers, Persona, Wild Strawberries and Winter Light are my Top 5 Bergmans in an order too unclear to assert at this time.
Yeah, when I was able to watch a lot of Bergman films consecutively I really picked up on how Virgin Spring was a major step forward for him (in terms of storytelling primarily through the visual) and have ranked it higher than most in the “best” pantheon. And it’s also one of my “favorites” because I find it so powerful and upsetting (odd criteria for “favorite” perhaps but there you go). Cries and Whispers is one I admire more than I love – I remember we all had a discussion about this a while back, but for some reason the B&W Bergmans “hit” me more directly than the color ones do. I have no idea why this is – if it’s to do with the use of color vs. B/W or more to do with changes in his overall aesthetic that co-incided with his adoption of color. I did have F&A lower on my list, originally beneath Monika but I moved it up because it’s so masterfully mounted and also because the extended TV version has some of my favorite Bergman moments (like the “hand of God” reaching around the door and pushing it open).
Thanks for pinpointing significant tasks Bergman takes on, and giving us (in that quote from him) a glimpse of the trek he was on. It was very useful mentioning that the first choice of title for the work in question was The Cannibals. Bergman was very acute about the way we devour one another in the course of subduing fears lurking at the “darkest depths,” and of course these actions tend to be horrific.
I agree with you that Cries and Whispers is a fantastic film, with its share of horror. On Wednesday I’ll be doing a piece on it, along with Breillat’s Anatomy of Hell.
This is a great review here, Kevin. Loved your dissection of the horror aspects of the film.
Me, I wasn’t so impressed with the film as Jamie and Kevin (I gave it a rating of ***1/2), and almost thought of not including it at all on my list, as placing, say RE-ANIMATOR above a Bergman film just seemed worse than not including it at all…
This was only my second Bergman — my first was CRIES AND WHISPERS, the images and sounds of which still haunt me and a film I found to be one of the greatest I’ve ever seen. HOUR OF THE WOLF may have more overtly horrific aspects to it, but I didn’t find that it came anywhere close to touching the chilling feelings that CRIES AND WHISPERS put off, and thus, though I loved a lot of what Bergman does here, it didn’t affect me in quite the same way.
I’m shocked that I allowed this superlative review by Kevin to slip me by (but looking at the date and numbering, I understand why as I was in the throws of writing the piece for NOSFERATU)…
I couldn’t agree with KEVIN more about the silences that pervade the works of this timeless master of the craft. I believe it’s silence, and the ability to examine who we are as people and individuals in said silence, in rooms of our own making and facing the mortal planes that God has intended us to analyze that are the most frightening and horrific motifs in Bergman’s work.
This is a masterful film but not for the unseasoned Bergman viewer (i.e. JAIME GRIJALBA) who, having not experienced the master before, will have trouble understanding the implied messages threaded into the visual and spiritual tapestries that are his films. Hard as they are, though, I feel that once one has wrestled with Bergman long enough, and by this I mean repeat viewing of all of his films, the more rewarding you find this director to be. There is no more probing and analytical directing works about life than the master from Sweden. SAM has often called Bergman the greatest director in the history of film. I’m not sure if I could argue that point. His films are about the realities, both plain as day and subliminal, of life. Never before or since, has one man so exposed himself mentally and spiritually on film that Bergman. His horrors are the horrors of facing ourselves and the dark secrets of our minds and yearnings. He puts a mirror up to our failures and makes us look at them, question them.
Sure, his horror films don’t jump out at you in the way the conventional horror film does. Not at all. That’s the point though. Life, and the fears we have about it, ruminate inwardly till they surface and explode into outbursts or fears externally. That is what HOUR OF THE WOLF, THE VIRGIN SPRING, THE MAGICIAN, CRIES AND WHISPERS are about. It’s the truest and most relatable type of horror.
I totally agree with Kevin’s choice of this film and its inclusion on this count. I’m just sorry I didn’t have the mind to remember it for my own ballot.
Well done, as always, KEVIN!!!!