by Sam Juliano
What is a movie musical by definition? It seems everybody has their own idea and there’s little conformity in the thinking. After a brace of amiable e mails between the seven voting members who will decide what the “Top 50 Musicals of All-Time” are, the decision was made to allow the widest scope imaginable in the negotiation of the vital voting stage of the venture.
The seven voters are movie veterans, with a strong background in musical cinema, whether it be a long veneration for the genre, active participation in stage work, or a pronounced cognizance -through exposure- of the significant connection between film and theatre. All seven voters are musical fans, and have a wide scope of appreciation and lifelong exposure to the form. The voters include:
Greg Ferrara (Cinema Styles and TCM)
Pat Perry (Doodad Kind of Kind)
Marilyn Ferdinand (Ferdy-on-Films)
Judy Geater (Movie Classics)
Dennis Polifroni (Wonders in the Dark)
Allan Fish (Wonders in the Dark)
Sam Juliano (Wonders in the Dark)
All seven voters will be forwarding their Top 60 film musicals listing on or around August 1st, at which point Voting Tabulator Extraordinaire Angelo A. D’ Arminio Jr. will compile the results utilyzing the reliable “weighted ballot” system. The results will be known to the panel within a day or two of August 1st, and a day-b-day countdown will begins with capsule essays to appear in reverse order from #50 to #1 on Monday through Friday. This will of course mean that the countdown won’t conclude until late October. Several of the voters (including Yours Truly) will be penning the essays. It has been decided that each voter will abide by their own standard in determining what films qualify, but it was generally agreed that opera films, operettas, and rock-themed films are eligible for inclusion. This will allow for a fascinating blend and an expected wide scope of form-within-a-form.
This should be fun. What happened to the sci fi countdown?
Didn’t you hear? ‘Star Wars’ was awarded the top 6 slots in a middle of the night little attended shadowy ceremony at the back of a pool hall in Berlin a few months ago.
Actually, I might as well say this– I’m counting series, either for television or theatrical releases– in single slots, to free up space for other stuff. Using 6 slots for Star Wars would be about the same as taking up 3 for Until the End of the World. Best to have as much room open as possible.
Is it going to be a top 50? 100? are some 25 with a 100-26 as a list? etc.
I’ve assembled a top 100, of sorts, each with its own full entry. Writing everything for that has proven to be somewhat tedious, so I’m considering contacting a couple of others to contribute for two or three entries at least. I’ve been taking time to view as much as possible in the hopes of not missing much of anything. My list is in a finished state, but there’s always a couple of movies here and there I debate about including, or series that I wonder about now and again. There’s also the constant question of “what is, or isn’t sci-fi”, how exactly to define it.
Wow, yeah that’s a lot of work. Good luck, and I’m excited to see how you define ‘sci-fi’ when all is said and done.
I’m also interested in how you view much of the landmark stuff that’s pretty trashy and/or hokey. ‘Logan’s Run’, ‘Megaforce’, ‘Tron’, ‘Forbidden Planet’, ‘This Island Earth’, ‘Silent Running’ ect. Many of those are pretty great (or at least fun), though many think they suck, and I don’t recall you ever really talking about them. Plus horror really infringes on them to as with ‘Invasion of the Body Snatchers’ etc. You don’t even need to tip your hat now, I’m just mildly curious.
And I hope you include arty stuff like ‘Stalker’, and ‘World on a Wire’, etc. which I assume you will. Again can’t wait. In the meantime:
I’m waffling on a couple of them. Some of the great known sci-fi films are truly bad (both the trash and the artsy stuff– Tarkovsky and Fassbinder won’t get free passes) and while everything has to be viewed in context, excuses can’t be parcelled out left and right, either. The genre overlap is a thing to think about, but for the most part I think sci-fi tends to dominate whatever else is in consideration, so all’s fair game.
Great, sounds damn interesting. Looking forward to it. And yes, to reiterate Maurizio’s query, what happened to the sci fi countdown?
That was always going to go after the Musicals. They’re a broader, more mainstream thing. Compiling a sci-fi list that’s right for the genre, and not just what people know of it, is the main thing.
Sam, I’m wondering if you could elaborate a little bit on this because I think there is, if not a general consensus of what a “Musical” is, we all know it when we see it. I think if you say “Musical”, it’s the films where characters break out in song. But, I wonder about dance themed films like The Red Shoes, or what about rock documentaries like Let It Be? Can you give us any further insight any further?
Hey Jon. Well, after a lengthy e mail discussion among the voters, it was determined that the parameters would be the widest imaginable, and the final decision would be up to the individual voters. So basically the seven voters in the end will “establish” individually what the guidelines are. Speaking for myself I will have the traditional choices (Hollywood in glory years) as well as full opera films, operettes, foreign-made musicals (like DANCER IN THE DARK, THE THREE PENNY OPERA, UMBRELLAS OF CHERBOURG) and rock musicals like A HAR DAY’S NIGHT and PINK FLOYD’S THE WALL.
Everything and anything goes, providing that musical is the major thrust.
Sam I know this is kind of late on this post, but I’m really into details and data. I work in the Science field after all! Okay so are you weighting the votes as you’ve mentioned by this “weighted system”? I haven’t been around for these countdowns in the past and I’m curious how the weighting works. Will you go into that at another date?
Jon: You are not late at all! The “weighted ballot” method is simply a numerical allocation of points on each ballot. Every voter’s #1 pick gets 65 points. Then it goes like this:
#2 59 points
#3 58 points
#4 57 points
#5 56 points
#6 55 points
#7 54 points
#8 53 points
……………and so on all the way down to #60, as easch voter will name 60 musicals, even though we will present only the Top 50 votegetters at the site.
Can’t wait for this, as I’m not that largest watcher of musicals AND it gets quite a bit of new blood writing and posting essays here (and gets Sam writing more about film which I always like). Can’t wait, love the ‘all hands on deck’ approach, it’s not as all-over-the-place as we intended the Horror countdown to be, but this will work wonderfully I believe.
Best of luck.
Thanks for the very kind words Jamie. Yes, as you well know yourself, this kind of project requires some serious application! Ha!
I know I’m having a great time getting ready, and with discs of “The Court Jester,” “Love Me Tonight,” “Tales of Hoffman” and “Showboat” all lined up immediate viewing, I’ve got plenty to wathc over the next few days.
Pat, all four of those gems will be making appearances in my own Top 60. No doubt you will enjoy each one to the max. You have really upped the enthusiasm level for the countdown, and I have caught the bug mightily over the past days! Enjoy, that’s really quite a quartet there!
I’m pretty sure they’re all going to make my Top 60, too. Only “Tales of Hoffman” will be new to me – the rest I’ve sene before, but so long ago that I really felt I needed to revisit them.
I hear ya Pat. I have a feeling that P & P will impress you mightily……
A Friday afternoon treat for musical fans:
(Jeanette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy in NAUGHTY MARIETTA singing one of the most famous of early songs)
I know. I know. That pair can reduce you. And that sublime aria is magnificence incarnate.
I think these two deserve an encore, and I go now to Romberg’s MAYTIME, where they again team for an unforgettable song..
I’m leaving the house now (Friday night at almost 5:00 P.M.) for the Asian Film Festival at Walter Reade, but wanted to leave musical fans who might stop by with one more tune, this time from James Whales 1936 SHOWBOAT, sung of course by the immortal Paul Robeson…..
Thanks for posting these, Sam. Just love that clip of Robeson from one of the greatest of all musicals – immortal is right. I’m also having a great time watching as many musicals as I can cram in now that they are all “homework” for the poll! Must go and watch some more right now!
Jusy, I’m thrilled to hear it! Thanks as always for the glowing support and boundless enthusiasm!
ohhh. Ol’ Man River. A classic standard.
Excellent addition here Jamie!
I can’t resist posting a clip too – one of the most romantic movie musical scenes… Bing Crosby and Grace Kelly (though Bing does nearly all the singing) from ‘High Society’.
Judy, this was an irrefutable classic!!! Your enthusiasm is infectious!
Great choice to add here!
Sam, what an attractive project, and what a promising group of writers!
These days I’m most susceptible to musical comedy. I’m hooked on the scope of comedic situations, and what songs and dance can add to this.
Thanks very much Jim! I’m sure some classic musical comedies will be placing in this countdown. Of course one thinks of Lubitsch and some early pre-coders as prime candidates. Some will even opt to consider the Marx Brothers in this vein. I’m certainly with you on this sentiment!
The voters/writers assembled here would seem to insure an impressive result!
I hope some of the voters consider ‘Some Like It Hot’ a musical, because I always have. Marilyn singing ‘I Wanna Be Loved By You’ in that see-through, diaphanous gown. Beanstalk!!!!!
Mark: My own personal indifference to “Some Like It Hot” has been conveyed at this site a number of times. But I know the problem is somehow with ME, as so many people consider this one of the cinema’s greatest works. I’m inclined to agree with you as far as it’s overlap, though I can’t speak for the other voters. As I say even if I do consider it a musical or a comedy or the hybrid of both, I wouldn’t vote for it anyway. But again, I’m sure the others are taking a look at it.
Thank you my friend! Hope all is well.
Sam, I am stunned, floored, flabbergasted to learn that you don’t care for ‘Some Like It Hot’! Every time I watch it I hear or see something new.
Sugar (referring to a fish mounted on the wall of Osgood’s yacht, which Curtis has told her is a herring): “Gee, how do thay get those great big fish into those tiny little bottles?” Curtis: “They shrink when they’re marinated.” It’s almost a throwaway line.
C’mon, Sam.
By the way, there’s also Monroe’s ukele number, ‘Running Wild” for musical aficionados.
Sorry you don’t like the film, Sam. I can only hope for your speedy recovery.
Later, my good friend (oh, I think I’ll e-mail you, too).
Mark you bring up an interesting point in referencing this film and that is, does a film containing songs or singing qualify it as a musical. Tons of movies have a song that is sung or contain moments where a song is performed in a memorable scene. One could argue for Casablanca being a musical in that case. However, I would say that neither Casablanca or Some Like It Hot would qualify for me. I don’t think music plays a significant enough part in them and it would be a stretch for me to convince someone of it. However as has been stated, it’s up to each panelist to decide.
Here’s a Sunday afternoon addition………….a classic song from Mamoulian’s magnificent “Love Me Tonight” (1932)
and how about this gem from the Irish ONCE (2006)……….
Hey, I got top billing! Thanks! You won’t regret it, either! Can’t Stop the Music, The Apple and Xanadu, here I come!
Ha Greg! I’m sure your input will be extraordinary for this countdown!!!
Thanks to all concerned for your work on the upcoming list of Musical Films. Not easy. I’ve given up on the 100 greatest musical films on TV. The majority on the list are more recent films. My preference is for the ‘golden oldies’.
Definition of a film musical: This is just my opinion. The production company has to set out intentionally to make a musical. Which leads to the commissioning of composers, dancers, orchestras, singers, etc. The film usually has a balance of music, songs, dances, which are an integral part of story. And often continue the story, as the Gene Kelly’s rain dance in ‘Singing in the Rain’. Having some music in a film does not qualify it as a musical. Casablanca has lots of music, but is basically a romantic film noir drama. Some Like it Hot has some music but is basically a Comedy Farce. I agree with Jonny on this. By the way Casablanca DID have a musical spin off. The 1972 Broadway musical show, ‘Sugar’. And if the judges decide to broaden the definition to include films with some music, well, you guys will be up all night!
I don’t mean to sound like a lecture.
It will be interested to see if the selection will include some of the lesser known ‘oldies’. Ones like, ‘Presenting Lily Mars’, or ‘Everybody Sings’, which are never mentioned in lists. Yes, I am one of the many Judy Garland fans!
Sorry, in my August 6th comment, the musical spin off, ‘Sugar’ was based on ‘Some Like It Hot’, not ‘Casablanca’.